What is wrong with trance today?

[Viceroy]

What would you say needs changing in trance these days?

[GrimReaper]

Trance is strongly lacking original ideas, sounds and structures. Actually they are missing almost everything what makes them different from the grey mass, makes them memorable or at best, finally make them even classics. There are exceptions but not too often.

Everyone just try to copy each other's ideas in some way and then just add their signatures to the results. Trance has been very uninspiring and unimaginitive over the last few years including the typical pretty boring attacking supersaws, artists use the same kicks and track structures track after track in every new production & remix. As already said, where's the originality when everything sounds almost exactly the same no matter whose music is playing. Where are all the alternate main elements like the best trancers had in the mid 90s for example? There are other instruments than Roland's 8000/8080 style supersaws too *yawn*.

That has really driven me quite far away from the world of new uplifting trance to listen other styles and older trance more actively. I've always been an old-skool addict but over the past few years my purchases of new uplifters have gone to minimum compared to the past mainly for the reason i just described. Too boring for me to buy, and even to download.

To me it sounds/looks like many of the "big" names have lost a huge part of their true interest in making original, own sounding music and just sticking with the same patterns over and over again and using the same standards others are using too and by that forgetting why they were originally doing it. Not for the money as it seems for many, but for the love of it and expressing themselves with music.

What expression is there if you just use many basic preset sounds and put them together and still think it will be great or even an unforgettable classic? I dunno really. Hopefully something good happens to trance before i lose my interest to listen it. Luckily for me, there still seems to come out a few good ones among hundreds of releases so i can delay my farewells.. The actual number of good records one could buy, is still a pretty little % of all the new tracks. Doesn't look good IMO and especially when compared to the number of amazing trancers 5+ years ago, it looks plain awful. Where have we come from that? Go figure.

[Steven H]

GrimReaper you just wrote the reply I would have wrote. Fair play!.. oh and thanks for saving me the time to write yet again my opinion on uplifting trance, because writing my same opinion over and over is just like the way you described trance, boring and a copy with a few minor changes...

[RayvinAzn]

What Grim Reaper said, with an additional gripe:

When Trance originated, vocals were an additive to the track, maybe support at best. Now they're a crutch. Artists depend so heavily on vocals that they seem to forget they're trying to make a good track, not just back up Suissa or Johnston's vocals. This isn't (shouldn't be?) pop music, and one of the things that separated this music from Disco was the lack of vocals...What "trance" sounds like today is one of two things: A New Age sounding track with "beautiful" vocals, or a JP8080 loop with a flat beat, and half-assed bassline.

Just like pop music, Trance now has a formula for success. What makes that worse is the fact that big-name artists, artists I used to respect a lot even, are starting to use the formulas. Goodbye soulful music, helloooo Popular Dance Culture.

[davehart]

Its got a little bit to predictable and a little too proggy. It needs to return to the big build ups and ephoric breakdowns of the past.

[Steven H]

at the end of the day its gonna go where its going...

for some it will be good, for others, well they will leave it behind

[QbIx]

I have to agree that uplifting Trance has lost a lot of it's magic and has become stagnant but at the same time i think Trance in general has moved on in some respects and that kind of feeling will probably not the same.

[Viceroy]

Good stuff guys.. you should also post the names of a couple of tracks, maybe comparing them to the old days? that demonstrate what you mean. For example, I've heard lots of complaints about Robert Nickson's track Spiral, which is still very popular. I think it was Andy P (and I'm expecting him to post his opinion any minute) who said he was a hugely talented producer, but stuck to the formula and isn't doing anything imaginative.
So let's hear some names...

[GrimReaper]

Hmm.. i'll give only one artist example now, more when i really have time:

Paul van Dyk - Forbidden Fruit (Album Mix or Forbidden Future Mix) (Seven Ways, 1996)
and
about any track on Reflections (2004).

PvD is known for using the same sounds way too many times for way too long. *a hint to the era really started by his For An Angel '98 update* For those who don't know, original For An Angel was released in '94 on PvD's first album, 45rpm and the original is more relaxed and VERY different from the classic stompin' E-Werk Club Mix. The difference in overall quality and originality between his older works from around 93-96 and recent days is amazingly huge and of the course the feel is very different as well. Its not as somehow melancholically emotional anymore than what it was on 45rpm or Seven Ways (Out There And Back has never been my fav even if it doesn't really have bad tracks, just thought the older ones were and still are better). Seems like his recent melodies and structures have been made more appealing to the masses than what they were. PvD has become "pop" in one meaning of the word. I know in a certain period of one's career, money starts to matter just because the producer/remixer needs to eat too and not just make lovely tracks.

And as a bonus, the one track i hardly ever get tired of, his most non-PvD-esque style remix from '94: Tranceparents - Child Two (PvD's Summer Love Mix). Soooo beautifully chilled trancer without his trademark sounds. Where are all the tracks like this now? Haven't seen too many similarly chilled trancers around.. some but only a handful. Most of them seem to follow the same cookie cutter formula than about every uplifting producer are using allover the European trance studios and really losing the original idea to make you feel something instead of making you dance like a maniac around the dance floor. I must admit many new uplifters do work in a club environment but outside the club they sound more or less just plain "meehh!". Not interesting enough to get me buying nor even *cough* download *cough* them. For more good examples from PvD's works back then, check his albums Vorsprung Dyk Technik, 45rpm and Seven Ways where the music sounds it was a fun thing to do unlike on Reflections the music sounds too "forced in a certain form"..


PS. Even more annoyed i get about the endless remakes updates and new remixes of old tracks, especially of tracks known to be classics. I know many old tracks are easy to start with but do they really need to be updated or an attacking "supersaw" uplifter remix? Not really IMO.

[davehart]

[RayvinAzn]

I'll do a whole CD: Paul Oakenfold's Tranceport vs. Armin van Buuren - A State of Trance 2004.

I think these CD's represent (fairly well) the popular sound for trance at the time. Paul Oakenfolds CD has a deeper sound, and appeals to people that enjoy all genres of music, while Armins CD is a rather empty, hollow sound. It doesn't appeal to people that don't like EDM, and it has none of the depth that Tranceport has.

And that's just 6 years. I can't even compare Northern Exposure, or Renaissance: The Mix Collection to what trance is today...it's just not fair. Trance isn't getting better, it's getting cheesier.

[Steven H]

cheezier , thats an understatement... so true

[Viceroy]

OK, so what do you mean by cheesier? More vocal tracks?
And Rayvin, you said that some artists who you "had respected" are now falling in with the crowd and producing boring stuff. What are some examples of this?
I guess I just wondering what the problem is, I still like a lot of the tracks that are out now - mind, I don't have trance from pre-1999 to compare them to.
Another thing - when would you say trance started to go downhill?

[Padawan Trancer]

I definitely agree with some of what you guys are saying, especially about PvD, with tracks like "Nothing But You" and "Time of Our Lives" in specific. But I don't think it's black and white, like trance is either amazing and magical or cheesy and unoriginal. As with any style of music, there are going to be artists/songs that you like and ones that you don't. But I think as long as there's stuff like M.I.K.E.'s Musix project, Ferry Corsten's new album, and a majority or what Armin hammers, I don't think that there is too much to worry about.

People say that today's trance is unoriginal, but there are new sounds/samples being created by sound engineers (and other people all around the world) and such for music making software pretty consistently, providing new soundscapes/vibes for tunes in the future. I think that is a hell of a lot more innovation than you'll find in today's rock, where the guitar is an instrument that is used in almost every song. To me, each synth is like it's own instrument with notes that go up and down the scale. Yes, some synths sound fairly to very similar, but thats sort of like a guitar and different kinds/brands of guitars.

As far as remakes of older tracks and "2004" editions and such, I just think of that as kind of a new spin or new remix. There are some tracks that I like but I feel could be changed or improved upon in some way and this new stuff (while some isn't too special) just gives people (and DJs especially) one more vibe to present when they play that track in a set. Thats one thing I've always loved about remixes, especially when they cross genre borders. There are trance tracks that I love but hearing a drum'n'bass, house, or chillout take on it can take it to a whole other level or even a remix or a trance track that is of a different style of trance (progressive/deep, dark/minimal, hard/tech, epic/melodic, etc.)

One more thing before I bore everyone to death. I've noticed that when DJs/producers make music that sounds somewhat or a lot similar to what is coming out at that time or before, people say its unoriginal, dated, etc. but if someone goes out on a limb and does something different, people still complain, saying "I like old school trance the best, today's music will never come close to comparing to it." being resistant to change/innovation and sometimes getting a bit elitist about it. Well, not to offend anyone, (seriously), but if you come up with a picture in your mind of what the music is going to sound like when you haven't even heard it (new stuff coming out) it will never meet your expectations because what you expect it to be doesn't even exist in your mind until you've heard it and even then, music takes getting used to.

Most of my favorite albums/complitations/tracks are ones that I initially "didn't get it" but then it grew on me and I have since then grown to love it/them. There are some exceptions to this, tracks that blow your mind the first time you hear them, having something intangible, sonething you can't really put your finger on, at least at first, but when you have other people hear it, they seem to get it too. For me, tracks like this are ones such as:

Musix- ? (I don't know what the track is really called, but it was on Ferry Corsten's Essential Mix and it said it was called "Right of Way" but thats the name of a track by Ferry right before it, so I'm assuming it's an error...still, a sweet track, it has this cricket sound that's such a cool and weird addition)

Lost Tribe- Possessed (Dirty, evil, and energetic)

Nathan Fake- Outhouse (Melancholy, mysterious, and dark in a Boards of Canada way)

Peter Martin presents Anthanasia- Perfect Wave ( It just works and takes from different genres very nicely)

There are many o more tracks out there that "just do it" for different people and I think a lot of people use the word cheesy when they really just don't feel it. If you try to be open minded and give it another chance you might like it. This open minded mentality is one of the reasons I listen to electronic music and trance in specific. If anyone is still reading at this point, thank you for being oatient and actually listening to what I have to say, even though you may not agree with me.

Keep the vibe alive!

[RayvinAzn]

[Divine DG Cannon]

[torley wong]

Padawan Trancer: The Border Community camp provides fine quality examples of a trance foundation and beyond, and it is nice you mentioned the Nathan Fake track.

I hear things simply -- there will always be many copycats and "derivative" sounds in all styles of music that accumulate en masse over time, and likewise, there will always be standout artists who do their own thing (before often being copied sometime down the road -- but by then, they have again adapted their sound).

I can't point to a particular downhill point myself as like the ocean, there are waves, and things will come up again.

As one man's epic house is another woman's progressive trance, as I sometimes like to say, I find it difficult to generalize and make blanket cases but I do believe that the future points to an increased plethora of hybrids such as the breaktrance that, ahem, Hybrid and others make, as well as the trance-'n'-bass of John B and soforth. You take something established, and go new places with it where new travellers can continue to journey.

Much can still be done with "saw leads with heavy effects" (I like how you put that, Divine DG Cannon) -- for example, if some increased refreshing diversity into alternate scales and modes were taken, as opposed to the familiar harmonic minor that a lot of trance finds itself in. I think some long-time artists who have been with trance for a number of years are still very hungry for future exploration of the sound. Brian Transeau is one I cite often, simply because he is who he is (not unlike Popeye ) and he is unique in this regard. An example would be "Dreaming" which was an oddly comfortable breaktrance combo remake of an 80s song, not to mention the technical nitty-gritty such as the plethora of unique transition sound effects (as opposed to the vanguard machine gun snare rolls) and the fact it was supposedly all created using software synthesis on desktop computers, which at the time was a big deal.

The historical pattern that often loops (not unlike trance music) is:

1) landmark handful of artists offer a "new sound"
2) old maintainers of style and elitist technosnobs and what-have-you-nots raise their arms in protest and complain about the "new sound", using a lot of big words but ineffectual action
3) "new sound" grows increasingly popular and adopts many new listeners
4) old vanguard either fades out or adapts to the "new sound", in some cases doing what is non-affectionally referred to as "jumping on the bandwagon"
5) cycle eventually repeats, variations on a theme!

I am hopeful there will always be new artists I enjoy. Not to mention many old artists I have yet to discover. I am surprised how many into trance have not heard the earlier pioneering wonders of Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Philip Glass, Jean-Michel Jarre, some industrial EBM offshoots, even "Xpander", etc.

Always more to learn!

[Royster@work]

There is still some good trance music out there today. Trance has evolved, it encompasses such a large sector that it has fired off in various directions. You can't blame people like Ferry Corsten and Armin Van Buuren for broadening their horizons and altering their sound, it add's a bit of variation.

It doesn't matter whether it's Melodic, Progressive, Vocal or whatever trance, as long as good music is being produced that the listener appreciates, then that's all that matters.

[RayvinAzn]

[WhiteEagle]

i think artists got carried away with default sounds of the computer ... i feel like there is not enough creativity over all