What IS commerical anyway...

[Ian]

Many songs are classified as 'commericial' but what really does it mean..

surely commerce means selling, so if a Dj sells a tune well, say Tiesto, does that make his music commercial, or just uplifting what sells well

Yes we know that theres a lot of songs made purely for sales and the charts and not clubs, eg Ian Van Dahl so we can call that Commercial

I just don't get why just cos a song thats done well in the clubs and is then picked up by radio stations why it suddenly becomes Commercial and isn't just successful uplifting or progressive or what, it just bugs me how say Minimalistix - close cover, great tune which 4 months or so after we all heard it gets on radio 1 and is suddenly cheese

[<--Ferry_Addict-->]

Well I think commercial is when DJ/Producers relases their single for the charts and stuff like that. When they do that it makes it popular and when its popular it becomes pop music (Cheese). But underground is different, most underground stuff are on vinyl so only DJ's and Pro's buy them. Well that's what I think commercial is anyway.

[((-&E-))]

if a song is commercial it means its been commercialy released which means its available to everyone...

doesnt it ??

i think so anyway... if somethings had a commercial realease.. it just means its available to all...

[Flotser]

I agree with you all about the defenition for commercial tunes

but for me there is 1 gengre of Trance that is reaky Underground and worth much:
PsyTrance - Goa!!! I like soooo much, and because there are no commercial songs of that type of Trance, not many of you listen to it...

any way, progressive is also sure an underground type but you can also see stuff like Vaiio - repature played on the MTV... yak... thats actually the reason i hate Darude and his stupid songs so much

ok, thats all I had to say, cya

[((-&E-))]

[Steven H]

Ok well im expecting a flaming from you guys now but...

I am all for comercialism! LOL... If a producer makes commercial music who the hell are we to say its cheesy? Some people might like this stuff. I was once a very anti-commercial person and I called songs in the charts cheesy and crap. This however is not the way! If someone wants to make money in the music industry you aint gonna do it underground lads! You are gonna do it commercially and do it well!

Are you saying that commercial tracks are cheesy cheap and not as skillfully produced as underground tracks? This however is way wrong! It is very difficult to have a wide audience like you track! You think someone will make a cheesy song, commercialise it and it will become no.1? No it wont! It must be of top quality and have very good appeal to a very wide audience!...

I say congrats to Ian Van Dahl, Darude, Warp brothers and many more... Those are the guys who live in their big houses and have their nice cars! and the rest of you.. well

Commercial is not a bad thing! and anyone who dicides to dislike a track just because its on the radio is a BIG HYPOCRIT!


This post is not aimed at anyone in particular.. just a general view from little old me

Thx!

[((-&E-))]

i think theres two types of commercial..

the shitty pop kind that starts off commercial ans is just shite / cheese

and

the stuff that starts off underground / on promos which then becomes commercial.. this stuff isnt cheasy... just gets annoying.. and its not annoying cos its been commercialised its cos we hear it far too fcuking often...

[trisco]

[quote="Steven"]
If a producer makes commercial music who the hell are we to say its cheesy?

i think this is very true..but dont u think most of the commercial stuff follows the same pattern? i dont really see any variation in synths etc etc... there is nothing ground breaking about it.. commercialism at its highest=ministry of sound compilations... lets stick the most uplifting and popular tracks on all three of the forthcoming albums..no variation....nothing underground to it..all in the name of money.... the best tracks come from those who do it for the pleasure of music!! not money!

[Steven H]

[Above&Beyond]

Im gonna say that i agree with Steven here, there is nothing wrong with a track becoming commercial. After-all, its not the DJ's/Producers fault if a tune so good and loads of people like it!! No-one ever got rich from DJ-ing in their dads garage to 10 of their mates every friday night!!

What i do think is bad is when DJs such as ATB get a hit (with a good record) but then dont know when to call it a day!! i mean, how many decent records has this bloke really done? Theres been good remixes but a the end of the day he (like many others) is just following the old rule of "If it aint broke, dont fix it".

The worse thing about this situation is that even the commercial stations that your moaning about wont touch this shite!! But maybe thats what u want??? As long as everybody keeps making crap records then we'll all be happy yeah?

I dont agree with manufactured rubbish like DJ Otzi but i dont see the harm in a good tune being released to others who (like us) appreciate trance. Not everyone has access to the internet after-all.

[Ian]

I agree with Steven, I'd rather have ATB, Iio, Ian Van Dahl, Pulsedriver, whatever you wanna call commercial, cos at least they are trance unlike the shitemongers Dj Otzi, Dj Alligator etc.. if commercial is really minimalistix etc then I will like it, its just the bad name given by some people classing all the above mentioned into the same thing I don't really listen to radio 1 etc anyway cause it's just set up so it sucks.

[DjCherny]

I think that just because something is commercial does not mean it's cheese. It may just mean that it's popular. I think some people who say that commercial = cheese like to distance themself from overly-popular trends. There's something in sociology called BIRGing, which stands for "basking in refective glory." This basically refers to how a Laker fan may truly identify with the team's success, or it can act in the reciprocal way. In that case somebody may not like that something becomes popular, so they distance themself from it by calling it cheese.

[DjCherny]

dp

[Ian]

what gets me is that the term commercial is given to any succesful dance music..... so ok you make a tune, everyone loves it, goes out and buys it.. does that make your song commercial or just popular... its something what really bugs me, as well as those losers who say they're trance but they're just eurocheese, but at what point does a tune become commercial ?

[Mathew]

commercial means it is played every where.. i.e. radio, adverts etc etc.
Just because it is commercial doesn't mean its cheesey.... annoying cuz its on all the time... but not cheesey.

DJ Tiesto - Urban Train, Push - Strange World, Cosmic Gate - Fire Wire and i could go on... as Paul Van Dyk has released loads, so has Ferry... mainly under System F, but he's non-the-less getting top twentys.

[dakoliap]

i would like to share me feelings about commercialization ..
For me personally, [I DO NOT PRETEND that its true for everybody else ]: it is when the music looses soul & personality, and even worse - starts to be a kind of "production line", a "hit factory"or "sell them all out!!!". If its a way of earning money only for the money, then its a shit. I would call all thoose producers and djs - shitheads & prostitues, and may they throw their stones into my garden if they want and can. I do believe, that everyone can determine mostly for himself what is commercial. For some people it is when the DJ is going to every radio station to give an interview & his song has been played ~50 times per day, for others - it is when the DJ takes the popular movement to stay on the top. Also for me there are 2 different things - to be a DJ & to be a music producer. I dont like some DJs, the way they play their cheezy sets, but i do listen & buy their records. When i see them on TV - it is awfull commercial shit for me, but when i hear their record on the set of a great DJ - i am flying high. Commercial for me is when an artist stays be the "HIT STYLE" dont changing anything, because been afraid of loosing that "golden status"....
If you look at some big ones of the trance world, you will surely see them changing & making progress during the time, and a lot of "newcomers babes", or "kings for a moment" staying just as long as they earn good money. I do not use any names, because i do believe, that everybody surely got both lists full =O) at least i have got mine =O)

There is one artist for me who is breaking all the rules, going beyond all limits and thats why i cant call her commercial - its Madonna. She dont gives a shit about what you think, she makes her music, her way... with the highs & lows ... This is a real artist ... 20 years and still kicking asses - "this is what i call action" ...

[nik007]

trance is becoming more and more popular every day...it is bound to get the commercial tag....which means even more people get into trance.....cause djs dont play their sets all over....hence they rely on music videos and radio and the net for new releases!
though like fcfan said....there is a big difference between euro cheese and trance....there is a big difference between a tiesto tune and a ian van dahl tune......which is probably the difference we should be making rather than diffrentiating between commercial and non commercial tunes !

[Flotser]

Steven and others I dont Agree with you, c'mon there is nothing good about Darude and other Pop Trance artists...i realy cant find quality their...but Ian Van Dahl are not a commercial producers in my opinion ,as you say and thats why theire tunes are so cool.... From those posts here i must totally agree with:

[Steven H]

Ok for now I will admit to something messy I like too many different styles of music...

I like everything from Trance, Dance, House, Funky house, Hard House, Club, Hard Trance, HardTechno, R'n B, Ballad, Classical and many more... There is only 1 genre i really hate! that is ROCK! I hate rock!

Anyway have you guys heard the new type of R'n B .. Its Hard R'nB i must say it is cool..

But obviously Trance, Hard Trance and House is my favs and is the only genres i downlaod and buy!..

[((-&E-))]

[DJ Akilliz]

I totally agree with Steven. What's wrong with commercialism? I first learned about trance through a Ministry of Sound CD (Clubber's Guide To Trance) and it was mixed by ATB by the way. I have to inform you that even though some people would probably classify it as cheesy, it was flawless in mixing and absolutely magnificent in track selection. Even now it's on my favourites list. Since then there was no turning back (I used to listen to Death and Black metal before!!). I was totally converted. Now I know a lot more about trance but my views haven't changed. What if PPK are getting played on the radio and even on MTV all the time. That can only be a good thing. At last some people start to make money out of trance.!! And I would rather listen to PPK and Darude all day than listen to Britney 'Fuck Me I'm still a Virgin' Spears, and Boyzone all day, every day.
I really don't understand this issue which I have encountered it many times before. Why do you complain? what's the problem? why does it get annoying listening to cheesy dance music all the time and it doesn't seem to bother you listening to other crap all day. What do you want to see on TV or listen on the radio? As soon as your wish will come true, you are going to call it cheese and dish it afterwards. Well fine by me. If you are so superior or knowledgeable (you are the only one that knows the best tunes in the world) then feel that way. If you want to snob some music (and people that listen to it) because you feel it's cheese or commercial that's fine as well (apart that you are being sad - but I don't have a problem with that). If someone has called 'cheese'a tune that you love and cherish then go and cry on momy's shoulder and then call your bigger brother to beat him up. Of course I'm beeing sarcastic. Even if I only listened to POP straight from the studios of Sony Music, I wouldn't be ashamed of it and other people can call me and my music whatever they want. I LOVE Trance, Hard Trance, House, Progressive, Hardhouse, Techno, D&B, Heavy Metal, Rock, Alternative, Doom, Industrial, Classical, MUSIC in general and I LOVE my taste and if you don't then and I don't mind that either.

WHEN I SAY 'YOU' I'M NOT REFFERING TO ANY OF YOU GUYS IN PARTICULAR. I'M REFFERING TO WHOEVER IS FEELING THE WAY I'M DESCRIBING.

And by the way if anyone calls this tune cheese "Darude - Feel The Beat (JS16 Dark Mix)" is an as$@!^$&.
J/K

[Ami]

oh boy, this has been swimming in my head for whole night, might end up long winded post, and appolgies for any language that might arise..

ok, the topic of comercialism, my limted take and thought so far, first of all when i entered the magistical world of trance, i felt like a baby who was just starting to walk, it hit me, i stood in awe, wow, there was sooo much, like a world arround me with no walls or celings, i thought hell how has this happened, how could i have missed something so big, something this big, doesn't nowadays stay relatively "underground" and hidden from the mass public and unexploited to hell and back

when i see trance, i get blown away the "purity" of the genre and the music is there in its entirity, there is no politics/controversy/exploitation/ associated with the music, just the music, and nothing else to detract from it, maybe the politics/controversy/exploitation/ so prevalant and intertwined with almost all the music there is, stems from and is in essence a part of commercialism, ie you get in bed with commercialism you also get in bed with the aforementioned stuff.

what i mean is i see this happen with other types of music

Hip-hop/Rnb - this is now so twisted, the music is surrounded in politcs and convertversy left, right and center, the true form of the music doesn't sell any more, now they need swearwords/controversy (west side vs east side gansta crap) to sell the music, and ppl actually have been killed as a result, the music is offensive, i cannot listen to it (would i hell any way) in front of a wide range of ppl, it offends and angers ppl, i would get hosed down if i had it on infront of 5, 8, 12,15yr kids, the other end of the spectrum, i can't put it on anywhere near old ppl. this has arrisen due to the commercialisation, and the fact controversy sells!!, eva seen kids get all hyped up, and enjoy and single out when the rapper said "mofo", this is a downright low point in any music, dont see this happening in trance do we, also you eva seen the merchandising as a result, kids going arround wearing the lastest "Fubu" gear, just because so and so is wearing it, where's the music gone!!!! these are the idiots with 13" rockford fosgate subs and cerwin vega ones that drop the bass soo low you no longer here the music, just BOOM BOOM,this is sheer stupidy at its best,

the actual music is as good as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!!
useless and meaningless.

this also leads to a big problem, predujice and sterotyping because of the music you listen to, just because you listen to hiphop, means your a black gangster, a mindless idiot, with no brain, and your'e violent, or so how ppl will generally perceive you as, same with them marilynn manson fans, just because of their music they have been lablled as lifeless, no respect for life, weirdo's, man this is just plain bad, as my friend found out at college, they are usually not like that, they are nice ppl, but the problem with 1st impressions is that you only get to make one, and by then the damage is done, again due to commercialism.


does this happen in trance, nope look at the spread of trance in various countries, take europe as an example, germany,belgian,netherland's, holland, uk, almost any country in europe, it has crossed borders, without the help of international comcerlism, why beacause trance has no prerequists for listening to it, it doesn't label or prejudice a person listening to trance, everyone can be comfortable with it, it doesnt offend or is deterimental to lil kiddies (my 8yr old lil bro loves silence-airscape and tiesto remix), if i play it, and old ppl are nearby, they can ignore it or love it! but not get offended,

also the wide diversity and coupling's with different artists proves this point, artists all over the world get together, differences set aside, and do what matters, make music, its like a pick and mix out there, there so much combinations that have been done, its truely amazing, not like stupid feuds and complete disregard and utter hatered for the fellow artists, (i.e hip hop) that has resulted in so much destruction

pop music, generally thought as the most commercialised form of music, full of one hit wonders, and 1 liner song, notice whats common with all these tracks

oops i did it again, baby one more time, you wanna be my lover

the title of the song gives away three quarters of the songs content, just pointless words repeated over and over again every 2 secs.

why is pop music like this, i tell you why, this form of music is so "dumbed" down, hell even a 2 yr old, would not have trouble not thinking bout the music, and they start it young, look at all those screaming 9yr girls at the mercy of boyzone/westlife releases and music, a record companies dream, pointless mass buying, just for the superficial aspect of the music, and hell i know and bet, these 9yr fans later on life regret and never admit they listening to such a grp, mass denial everywhere when kids and teenagers grow up, hell think of all the money wasted on counselling and psychiatry,

in addition comercialism wrecks so many ppl, all that money gets to the artists head, and you hear stories of drug abuse/mental anguish, which has ruined many ppl as a result, not nice is it? their lives become a public soap opera, hounded for every decision they make, how the hell is anyone gonna make music in this state, but the comercial companies have already made millions from them and now they wont even touch them wth a 20ft bargepole, and this happens over and over again, no sign of change. look at pdiddy (name sounds like a 2yr kid swearing) and jenifer lopez, (their life's introverably ruined and changed for life, for all the wrong reasons), but guess what, even that bad news, shifted more records for them and the commercial beast of records companies that are everywhere keep doing so, i sincerley hope this does not reflect the true nature of humanity, making money out of misfortune

even commercialism continually sets new records for how low, it'll stoop, man that popstar farce, how much money did they make from the phone calls, and the stupid album that was a result, thought the spice girls was bad, look where they are in limbo lingering, arround doing nothing,

now bout trance, its amazing how trance has avoided all this, look at the artists/dj's/producers, they're normal ppl enjoying there lives just as your avg common man is, there is nothing between a top dj, and his music

[Steven H]

That was nothing short of inspirational! I have printed out what your wrote and laminated it and put it on my bedroom wall! <- Im Serious

This is what I think has been in the minds of most trance lovers and I think you are the only person who has ever been able to put this into words! You will be rewarded for this

Im going to post your writings on the ivibes website so that all our visitors can read it and post their views!

Thanks for contributing this with [i:Vibes] this truly shows that our community is growing and getting better and better with members like you.

Thanks again!

[Ami]

haha, even with all the mistakes, hope you corrected them at least, oh this really wasn't too much effort, not with the forum and its members, if you think the article is decent, you also have yourselve's in part to thank, already 2/3 days at most, and my nerves are firing like hell, just thought this up

Trance= infinite diversity in infinite varibilty.

dunno, haha, just popped into my head.

nerves of insanity here i go, if anyone has read kenshin manga the jinchuu arc, i feel like enshi with his nerves of insanity, hope i dont end up like him!!!

[wimpy]

ami... nice going like steven i've printed the text and put it up @ work for everyone to read

[gunshy]

[((-&E-))]

[<--Ferry_Addict-->]

Ami, I've just read what you have wrote and I agree with you there in every way!

[Mathew]

a-fucking-men !!! wow.... i wanna cry.. no.. i really do - because it is so true, but no thinks about it enough. !!

[Ami]